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	<title>Comments for raving lunacy - oxymorons for the 21st century</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ravinglunacy.org/index.php/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ravinglunacy.org</link>
	<description>where memes come to die</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:37:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Closed Captioning and You Tube by User-Centered Design and Web Accessibility Blog - AniktoBlog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Closed Captioning on YouTube</title>
		<link>http://www.ravinglunacy.org/index.php/2008/06/26/closed-captioning-and-you-tube/#comment-1570</link>
		<dc:creator>User-Centered Design and Web Accessibility Blog - AniktoBlog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Closed Captioning on YouTube</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:17:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ravinglunacy.org/?p=218#comment-1570</guid>
		<description>[...] must credit the finding of this information to Raving Lunacy, an interesting blog exploring a variety of self-described &#8220;oxymorons for the 21st [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] must credit the finding of this information to Raving Lunacy, an interesting blog exploring a variety of self-described &#8220;oxymorons for the 21st [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Death Rattle of the Associated Press by alan herrell - the head lemur</title>
		<link>http://www.ravinglunacy.org/index.php/2008/06/13/the-death-rattle-of-the-associated-press/#comment-1462</link>
		<dc:creator>alan herrell - the head lemur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 01:12:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ravinglunacy.org/?p=208#comment-1462</guid>
		<description>Spinlock,

Only somewhat rabid? sigh..
 I was shooting for fulminating vituperation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spinlock,</p>
<p>Only somewhat rabid? sigh..<br />
 I was shooting for fulminating vituperation.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Death Rattle of the Associated Press by SpinLock</title>
		<link>http://www.ravinglunacy.org/index.php/2008/06/13/the-death-rattle-of-the-associated-press/#comment-1455</link>
		<dc:creator>SpinLock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:57:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ravinglunacy.org/?p=208#comment-1455</guid>
		<description>I used to work at the AP in NYC (2000-2005), and I've met Jim Kennedy many times. Although they've earned my ire over this whole thing, I've gotta point out your first paragraph is way off base.  The PRIMARY purpose of the AP, from it's inception as a not-for-profit organization (it's still one today), was to field reporters to gather/write the news, and distribute it to the AP membership.  The business of accepting content from members, scrubbing it, then sharing it with the remaining members came along later.  And it was the members who wanted it.  And it has rules, like one paper's 'exclusive' can't be sent to a nearby paper, a system known as 'outing'.

While you're clearly on the 'right' side of this DMCA issue, your arguments are tainted by the inaccuracies, and somewhat rabid tone, of your first paragraph.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to work at the AP in NYC (2000-2005), and I&#8217;ve met Jim Kennedy many times. Although they&#8217;ve earned my ire over this whole thing, I&#8217;ve gotta point out your first paragraph is way off base.  The PRIMARY purpose of the AP, from it&#8217;s inception as a not-for-profit organization (it&#8217;s still one today), was to field reporters to gather/write the news, and distribute it to the AP membership.  The business of accepting content from members, scrubbing it, then sharing it with the remaining members came along later.  And it was the members who wanted it.  And it has rules, like one paper&#8217;s &#8216;exclusive&#8217; can&#8217;t be sent to a nearby paper, a system known as &#8216;outing&#8217;.</p>
<p>While you&#8217;re clearly on the &#8216;right&#8217; side of this DMCA issue, your arguments are tainted by the inaccuracies, and somewhat rabid tone, of your first paragraph.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Associated Press, Fair Use, Copyright, and the rest of us. by Michael Alan Miller &#187; I say &#8220;fuck&#8221; a lot</title>
		<link>http://www.ravinglunacy.org/index.php/2008/06/14/the-associated-press-fair-use-copyright-and-the-rest-of-us/#comment-1454</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Alan Miller &#187; I say &#8220;fuck&#8221; a lot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:34:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ravinglunacy.org/?p=210#comment-1454</guid>
		<description>[...] and fuck anyone who attempts to take away our rights, and fuck the sycophants and bootlickers like Shelley Powers, mentioned in the story and who is also the first [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and fuck anyone who attempts to take away our rights, and fuck the sycophants and bootlickers like Shelley Powers, mentioned in the story and who is also the first [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Associated Press, Fair Use, Copyright, and the rest of us. by Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.ravinglunacy.org/index.php/2008/06/14/the-associated-press-fair-use-copyright-and-the-rest-of-us/#comment-1452</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:14:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ravinglunacy.org/?p=210#comment-1452</guid>
		<description>Shelley, do you actually have any idea what fair use is? You do know that the AP can't establish stricter fair use standards than the law specifies right? There is no need to know any more of what happened but the DMCA takedown notices and the original posts.

You are wrong. AP is wrong. 

Quod erat demonstrandum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shelley, do you actually have any idea what fair use is? You do know that the AP can&#8217;t establish stricter fair use standards than the law specifies right? There is no need to know any more of what happened but the DMCA takedown notices and the original posts.</p>
<p>You are wrong. AP is wrong. </p>
<p>Quod erat demonstrandum.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Associated Press, Fair Use, Copyright, and the rest of us. by Irene Keselman</title>
		<link>http://www.ravinglunacy.org/index.php/2008/06/14/the-associated-press-fair-use-copyright-and-the-rest-of-us/#comment-1451</link>
		<dc:creator>Irene Keselman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:03:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ravinglunacy.org/?p=210#comment-1451</guid>
		<description>This is Irene from AP legal.

Please remove this story or I’ll sue your ass so hard you’ll be scrounging copper from foreclosed houses to pay your legal bills.

You have no idea how hard we can rape you. And yes, that does mean that I will pay large black men using AP money to rape you.

This probably won’t be fun for you.

This is your DMCA takedown notice. Take this down or it’ll be “My Sharona” for you, my friend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is Irene from AP legal.</p>
<p>Please remove this story or I’ll sue your ass so hard you’ll be scrounging copper from foreclosed houses to pay your legal bills.</p>
<p>You have no idea how hard we can rape you. And yes, that does mean that I will pay large black men using AP money to rape you.</p>
<p>This probably won’t be fun for you.</p>
<p>This is your DMCA takedown notice. Take this down or it’ll be “My Sharona” for you, my friend.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Associated Press, Fair Use, Copyright, and the rest of us. by libhomo</title>
		<link>http://www.ravinglunacy.org/index.php/2008/06/14/the-associated-press-fair-use-copyright-and-the-rest-of-us/#comment-1435</link>
		<dc:creator>libhomo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 22:59:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ravinglunacy.org/?p=210#comment-1435</guid>
		<description>There is a strong right-wing bias to AP's content that makes me a bit uncomfortable linking to it or quoting it.  However, I signed the boycott petition because big media shouldn't be able to bully away the constitutional rights of bloggers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a strong right-wing bias to AP&#8217;s content that makes me a bit uncomfortable linking to it or quoting it.  However, I signed the boycott petition because big media shouldn&#8217;t be able to bully away the constitutional rights of bloggers.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Associated Press, Fair Use, Copyright, and the rest of us. by alan herrell - the head lemur</title>
		<link>http://www.ravinglunacy.org/index.php/2008/06/14/the-associated-press-fair-use-copyright-and-the-rest-of-us/#comment-1434</link>
		<dc:creator>alan herrell - the head lemur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 15:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ravinglunacy.org/?p=210#comment-1434</guid>
		<description>I don't think any of their previous communications are relevant in this case as the end result was a DMCA notice.   Conciliatory or confrontational exchanges are only significant if, as you say we want to bolster our assumptions.

Rodgers is asserting Fair Use and AP is asserting  Copyright Infringement.  


Using the headline and the first paragraph(s),  can be a case for infringement, as we  already have scraping and splogging, clearly defined,  which is what one of the primary goals of the DMCA act is. 

For the sake of argument 6 of the 7 alleged infringements, do meet the scraping test, and based upon what information we do possess,  may be valid infringements. 

The first one is the headline, but has its 'content' from the body, rather than the first text following the headline.

Having had one of my sites scraped, and filing my own DMCA notices a couple of years ago, I have a little more insight into the process, than most folks. In my case the entire postings were being used and not excerpts. Unfortunately, that site is gone, so I cannot provide you with links to the relevant passages .

However, Rodgers  says;
"I have no desire to be the third member of that club, but sharing links to news stories of interest has become an essential component of how millions of people read and evaluate the news today. When linking to articles, bloggers commonly include excerpts of the article for the purposes of criticism or discussion. Some AP member sites encourage this kind of reuse. Yahoo News, the source for two disputed stories, invites bloggers to use items from its RSS feeds. USA Today, the source for two others, includes a browser widget alongside articles that facilitates their submission to Digg, Mixx and other sites. Wade Duchene, the attorney who helped me win the domain name arbitration for Wargames.Com, says that what we're doing on the Retort is the "absolute definition of fair use."."

Having said that, I tend to agree with Rodgers theory, and it is a theory at this point, because Fair Use is determined on a case by case basis. 

Under Rodgers theory pointing out that AP licensees are providing links and widgits for reuse,  I wonder  again what arraignments/terms and conditions AP has with Yahoo, USA Today, Google and others.
 
Where we do not have enough information, and need more is, since these alleged infringements are coming from licensees sites,  why is  the AP doing the heavy lifting? Are they the news version of the RIAA? 

What 'rights' do the licensees have from the AP? Do they include RSS reproduction, do they become subsidiary  works, as they are a part of a licensees site whose own copyright is created upon publication?  


At the end of the day, I consider these to be Fair Use, as they are excerpts, and contextual in nature for discussion, rather than infringement, for profit, despite Rodgers having Ads on the site. 

Which begs the question of where personal ends and commercial begins, as  Copyright  is clear on the rights of reproduction, and assignment of those rights. 

The devil is in the details of percentages relating to  monetary earnings. As an author you are probably more familiar with that than I.

As for law bloggers, I would really like to see what William Patry says.  
http://williampatry.blogspot.com/
He is the top Google Copyright Lawyer. He also writes clearly, without the usual ambiguity that most lawyers present.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think any of their previous communications are relevant in this case as the end result was a DMCA notice.   Conciliatory or confrontational exchanges are only significant if, as you say we want to bolster our assumptions.</p>
<p>Rodgers is asserting Fair Use and AP is asserting  Copyright Infringement.  </p>
<p>Using the headline and the first paragraph(s),  can be a case for infringement, as we  already have scraping and splogging, clearly defined,  which is what one of the primary goals of the DMCA act is. </p>
<p>For the sake of argument 6 of the 7 alleged infringements, do meet the scraping test, and based upon what information we do possess,  may be valid infringements. </p>
<p>The first one is the headline, but has its &#8216;content&#8217; from the body, rather than the first text following the headline.</p>
<p>Having had one of my sites scraped, and filing my own DMCA notices a couple of years ago, I have a little more insight into the process, than most folks. In my case the entire postings were being used and not excerpts. Unfortunately, that site is gone, so I cannot provide you with links to the relevant passages .</p>
<p>However, Rodgers  says;<br />
&#8220;I have no desire to be the third member of that club, but sharing links to news stories of interest has become an essential component of how millions of people read and evaluate the news today. When linking to articles, bloggers commonly include excerpts of the article for the purposes of criticism or discussion. Some AP member sites encourage this kind of reuse. Yahoo News, the source for two disputed stories, invites bloggers to use items from its RSS feeds. USA Today, the source for two others, includes a browser widget alongside articles that facilitates their submission to Digg, Mixx and other sites. Wade Duchene, the attorney who helped me win the domain name arbitration for Wargames.Com, says that what we&#8217;re doing on the Retort is the &#8220;absolute definition of fair use.&#8221;.&#8221;</p>
<p>Having said that, I tend to agree with Rodgers theory, and it is a theory at this point, because Fair Use is determined on a case by case basis. </p>
<p>Under Rodgers theory pointing out that AP licensees are providing links and widgits for reuse,  I wonder  again what arraignments/terms and conditions AP has with Yahoo, USA Today, Google and others.</p>
<p>Where we do not have enough information, and need more is, since these alleged infringements are coming from licensees sites,  why is  the AP doing the heavy lifting? Are they the news version of the RIAA? </p>
<p>What &#8216;rights&#8217; do the licensees have from the AP? Do they include RSS reproduction, do they become subsidiary  works, as they are a part of a licensees site whose own copyright is created upon publication?  </p>
<p>At the end of the day, I consider these to be Fair Use, as they are excerpts, and contextual in nature for discussion, rather than infringement, for profit, despite Rodgers having Ads on the site. </p>
<p>Which begs the question of where personal ends and commercial begins, as  Copyright  is clear on the rights of reproduction, and assignment of those rights. </p>
<p>The devil is in the details of percentages relating to  monetary earnings. As an author you are probably more familiar with that than I.</p>
<p>As for law bloggers, I would really like to see what William Patry says.<br />
<a href="http://williampatry.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://williampatry.blogspot.com/</a><br />
He is the top Google Copyright Lawyer. He also writes clearly, without the usual ambiguity that most lawyers present.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Associated Press, Fair Use, Copyright, and the rest of us. by Shelley</title>
		<link>http://www.ravinglunacy.org/index.php/2008/06/14/the-associated-press-fair-use-copyright-and-the-rest-of-us/#comment-1433</link>
		<dc:creator>Shelley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 02:40:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ravinglunacy.org/?p=210#comment-1433</guid>
		<description>I may have missed those two links at the bottom of Rogers articles, but I don't remember seeing them when I wrote my comments. 

Regardless, we don't know what the previous communications between Rogers and the AP reps covered. We have the formal DCMA, but at the same time we also have evidence of prior communications. 

The point I wanted to make is that we assume guilt and innocence based on who we prefer to be guilty or innocent, not necessarily on facts. 

And frankly, I still doubt that these necessarily fall into "fair use". That may make people angry, but it doesn't change the fact that these may not be fair use. Be interesting to see what the lawyer bloggers say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I may have missed those two links at the bottom of Rogers articles, but I don&#8217;t remember seeing them when I wrote my comments. </p>
<p>Regardless, we don&#8217;t know what the previous communications between Rogers and the AP reps covered. We have the formal DCMA, but at the same time we also have evidence of prior communications. </p>
<p>The point I wanted to make is that we assume guilt and innocence based on who we prefer to be guilty or innocent, not necessarily on facts. </p>
<p>And frankly, I still doubt that these necessarily fall into &#8220;fair use&#8221;. That may make people angry, but it doesn&#8217;t change the fact that these may not be fair use. Be interesting to see what the lawyer bloggers say.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Death Rattle of the Associated Press by Shelley</title>
		<link>http://www.ravinglunacy.org/index.php/2008/06/13/the-death-rattle-of-the-associated-press/#comment-1427</link>
		<dc:creator>Shelley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 05:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ravinglunacy.org/?p=208#comment-1427</guid>
		<description>Rogers did not post enough information for any of us to form a knowledgeable opinion. What he's done is trigger a pile on.

AP could be wrong, could be right -- but we don't have all sides of the story, we don't even have the 7 posts, or have read all the communications. 

I would think that people would appreciate getting all sides of the story before forming an opinion, wouldn't you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rogers did not post enough information for any of us to form a knowledgeable opinion. What he&#8217;s done is trigger a pile on.</p>
<p>AP could be wrong, could be right &#8212; but we don&#8217;t have all sides of the story, we don&#8217;t even have the 7 posts, or have read all the communications. </p>
<p>I would think that people would appreciate getting all sides of the story before forming an opinion, wouldn&#8217;t you?</p>
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